Yoshi - The Final Build and everything I've tested so far.
Dr. Robotnik - November 27, 2018So I got to play 6 hours of ultimate last night. Learned a lot about yoshi and am going to list things here. A lot to remember but I’m going to try and not repeat stuff I’ve said in the past.
Biggest buff is the Dj armor. It now behaves like melee Dj armor in the sense that when it’s broken now, it puts you into hit stun but doesn’t send you anywhere. I ate a f smash from k rool at 180 and didn’t get sent anywhere and then punished him for it. If the move that breaks it is laggy, you have time to do any move that’s 10 frames or less as any time I tried to use fair it was always just barely too slow.
Like ice climbers, Yoshi can true wave land out of Dj.
Double jump armor doesn’t last as long. But over all is better.
Down throw is a true confirm to up air on the whole cast at low % and a kill confirm window like ding dong on most of the cast. Only few characters I couldn’t kill this way was k rool, dedede and bowser who are all incredibly hard to kill off the top (should note I didnt get to play against ganon but i assume it wont on him either). Coining the grab into x combo "Egg Bop"
Ground pound reaches much lower than it ever has. This allows you to hit people on the ledge with ground pound now and even slightly below it.
At extreme heights ground pound can be moved left or right slightly.
Egg roll in final build is super slow start up. However it does incredible shield damage and the hit box is slightly bigger than his body now. It’s a rare use but has value as a break option.
Short hop dair auto cancels and combos now, but full short hop dair only does 22 instead of 33. If you don’t hit anything it ends super fast.
Jab cancel is still a thing but only at 100%+ and only into down smash (still frame 7 but has more power)
Ftilt and up tilt both combo into up air, f tilt has massive kbg and kills at 160ish and still frame 5, up tilt has almost no kbg and always combos into up air. Floaty or heavy, didn’t matter.
Up air is much better. Hit box hits wider and has less end lag but still frame 5 active. Knock back is much more vertical with less di angles making chaining them. It’s very easy to do double up tilt into quadruple up air into egg throw finish.
Fair and nair are disjointed now allowing you to beat out slight disjoint attacks.
Bair when not hitting anything ends super fast and short hop bair auto cancels. Bair kills better than smash 4.
Egg throw changed again. No longer infinite like last build, but you get 4 vertical boosts that are all better than the first boost than smash 4. You could do 2 egg throws back to ledge and do ledge release egg throw and make it back on stage.
Egg combos are different now, but over all better.
Short hop nair auto combos into fair.
Fair knock down/stuns at 0 making fair into jab always work at low %.
Fair knock down off ledge confirms into fair spike.
Neutral b/egg lay is harder for opponents to break from. The opponent no longer gets invincibility out of egg lay, but can come out side ways depending on which way they hold, side ways out of egg lay forces tumble.
Fair has a new spike hit box above him that’s really good and reaches the farthest behind him. I couldn’t get someone to get sent behind me from fair once. The outward hit from fair is stronger but the spike is about the same.
Retreating fair is safe on shield and short hop fair ends before you hit the ground allowing for much more open combos or a way to retreat if someone uses a projectile.
New tech: full hop buffered egg throw jump boosts you and allows you to get higher than jump, double jump, egg throw. Coupled with the reduced end lag of egg throw, creates a lot of new combo/ladder opportunities.
Ground pound does more shield damage but it’s really hard to get the stars to hit shield. Aerial ground pound will break a half health shield.
Ground pound can go throw platforms but also with up held keep you on platform. If you hold down for too long before you even come down it will force you to go throw platforms as the input commits you to the option.
Rolling is super fast, but rolling in general is really bad. Most are vulnerable through their roll now. Be careful.
Most characters have a unique pivot grab animation now, yoshi returns to brawl status.
Pivot grab has very low end lag but the grab itself is almost instant and reaches farther than standing and dash grab. Retreating pivot grab is very safe.
Jab confirms Better into fair at lower % now unlike 4 where if they di right they could get away.
Last frames of dash attack combo into fair or up air, dash attack doesn’t go as far.
Down tilt has better knock down.
Jab, nair, fair all jab lock now. Fsmash and up smash are too slow to punish out of jab lock. Down b and down smash are the best options. Down b has slightly better kill power than smash 4, but it’s worth noting heavies are much harder to kill off top now, but since down smash actually kills earlier it makes up for it.
Upsmash is weaker but has better range and less end lag.
Fsmash is stronger with better disjoint than 4.
Yoshis speed is great. Aerial turn around speed in ultimate allows characters to live horizontal attacks better. After some testing, some attacks that could kill at 100 with no di in wouldn’t kill til 130.
Full hop speed is so fast
Fair reaches through most up b attacks now. One of the few who can even hit k rool out of his when even marth can’t.
Up b that I’ve been able to beat with fair so far: mario, k rool, marth, Roy, bayonetta, little Mac, all links, simon.
Match ups I feel give yoshi the most trouble.
Roy: this character is bull shit fast, thankfully his aggression is horizontal killing and yoshi longer than most. Roy is combo fodder and Yoshi can fair through his up b now. Breaking Roy’s neutral is really hard.
Young link: damn arrows are so good and can break eggs. Small width stages and less platforms are your friend.
K rool: my god this monster is rough. Big range, super armor, heavy as shit. He lived to 200 almost every stock unless I got to edge guard him. Bait out his armor and let eggs rain down. If you break his armor it’s like a shield break level of stun. Charged f smash will kill cross map at 70 on him.
Wario: warios changes make getting away from him impossible as his air speed can keep up with yoshi and trap you. Bite heals if he grabs ya. Dash attack kills making fair on shield scary if you mess up at all. His up b kills and all his multi hits just work now. He’s got smash 4 mario up smash range. Biggest weakness is his bike takes forever to come back. Throw him off stage and look for an egg confirm.
Best match ups on the characters considered really good right now:
Pikachu and pichu: Yoshis speed and range allow for brutal pressure and early kills on these rats. Edge guarding and juggling these two is very VERY easy for yoshi.
Cloud: revenge at its fucking best. Cloud can’t juggle yoshi at all anymore. Yoshi can quickly and easily pressure and get cloud off stage.
Mario: fair beats upsmash now. No more landing traps. Everything mario had on yoshi just doesn’t work anymore.
I’ll be playing more tonight, if you want me to test more, I will. I can’t upload footage as I don’t want to get banned. Launch weekend I'll be recording a full showcase for all of this in a series of videos.
If I had to rate yoshi, he’s a top 15 character. Yoshi has one of the best disadvantage states simply from the Dj armor change. The biggest flaw he has is characters who just try to challenge him in air with a sword, but all of it is manageable now. In a game where defense is nerfed super hard, yoshis defensive options are the best hands down. I know I’m forgetting a few things, but ask questions and I’ll either test that tonight or answer. I dont check here often, so reach out with a tweet and i'll respond to anything.
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