On Bayo Planking and Ledge Grab Limit
Blank - May 1, 2017First of for those of you who do not know what a ledge grab limit is let me define it for you. It is a rule that states that "if a match ends in time out, and a player has grabbed over the amount of times allowed they are disqualified and the opponent wins the game, regardless of remaining stock and damage count. However, if both players exceed the ledge grabbing limit, the normal time out rules apply."
This rule was mainly used for brawl due to MK and the normal ledge grab limit was between 30 and 50. The way this was checked was through the win screen stats.
Due to CaptainZack's extensive use of planking VS MVD and Manny the topic has come back up.
Personally I believe that Bayonetta planking with up b is highly degenerative to the game due to many characters not being able to punish her up special because they lack the frame data to so. While it's not unbeatable by any means and is punishable by a good amount of characters the fact that it does invalidate a large number of characters and skews the risk reward very heavily in Bayo's favor makes it degenerative to the game as a whole. Currently nothing prevents anyone from learning how to plank as Bayo for the sole purpose of winning vs a sizable portion of the cast.
Smash 4 is also not a super time out heavy game due to rage so the times this rule would apply would only really be in extreme cases. In Zack's set with MVD in game 3, the only game that went to time, he grabbed the ledge 21 times. Given that Smash 4 has a 6 minute timer I think some number between 20 or 30 as a ledge grab limit would be extremely fair.
Given Bayo's ability to plank so effectively vs a large portion of the cast and the degenerative nature of it. I do think a ledge grab limit should be instituted even though smash 4 does not have infinite ledge grab invincibility.
For those of you who do not see it as degenerative I wish to bring up that Bayo's up b can shield poke and that it leads into powerful combos forcing people to only contest with close to full shield. That Bayo's jump getup air dodge gets through active hitboxes due to bat within and that jump getup is unreactable. Trying to stop Bayo from simply spamming jump getup is also very risky due to the threat of witch time and the fact that if Bayo simply waits for your move you will get punished by witch twist. All of these factors combined make Bayo camping the ledge highly degenerative to the game as a whole.
If a ledge grab limit is not instituted any character that cannot punish Bayo for a regrab or simply for doing it on their shield will be completely invalidated.
With the upcoming possible changes to the ruleset in the next season I think it is imperative that a LGL be added to it or else smash 4 will become a significantly less popular game due to planking being unenjoyable to fight, watch, and extremely strong to the point of invalidating many characters.
Once I have more data and have done some labbing about what exactly can be done against it, I'll make a video discussing the topic more deeply on my YouTube channel where I'll go into the frame data and go into more detail.
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Comments
Tremendo Dude - May 2, 2017I personally think there should be more time given to create counterplay before we pull the alarm. Regrabbing is risky due to ledge mechanics, and landing will always create /some/ form of landing lag. While Bat Within with jump might negate lasting hitboxes, Bayo still suffers damage from it hence reducing planking's viability.
I think Bayo camping the top of the Duck Hunt tree is more degenerate, but I don't see anyone banning platform camping. There's also Komo vs Mr R from SDW, which featured similar shenanigans. Point being, these tactics look strong because players don't have counterplay developed yet.
I say MVD and Manny were just playing wayyyyy too respectful, though I do see this destroying lower tiers (i.e. Ganon) - but them's the break. Was Brawl Sheik keeping Ganon out with chain not just as degenerate according to your rhetoric?
We create rulesets not to balance the game, and I do not think this tactic will be centralizing enough to require a rule for it, however only time will tell.
Ramses - May 2, 2017You must log in to comment.
How do we regulate this? Where do we draw the line?